Small Ball Position Play

[Anthony C]

Hello all, I'm trying to learn how to play small ball in position the right way. Say i have A-Q suited on the button with three callers in front, how much should i be raising? When it comes to being the first one to enter the pot should i be raising with hands like 4-5 suited and unsuited? This is open to all that has a better understanding of small ball than i do. Oh what confuses me most is how to play position with other players in the hand with me. I hope someone will finally set me straight about how to be a better player when it come to small ball. Thanks All Anthony C.

[KTeller™]

Originally Posted by Anthony C

When it comes to being the first one to enter the pot should i be raising with hands like 4-5 suited and unsuited?

why would you want to risk more chips (anti small ball) with 4-5 suited? i believe your to limp in w/ them vs the standard approach of folding a suited connector in EP

[TeddyKGB]

small ball before the fall usually works best if you are one of the last to act and and no one has entered the hand yet. you are pressuring the blinds with small raises. daniel negraenu has a video you can watch on u tube called learn to win at texas holdem, that gives some detail. i think four five suited is a little weak , even for small ball. but its true that you are in there all the time with marginal holdings , confusing dudes with constant small raises, the key to it is to get away from marginal hands when u are reraised, AND , taking the same small ball line, both before the fall and after, with monsters that you would with your bluffs and semi bluffs. your aq ex. is a tough one, im not sure that for the strategy to work, that you need to small ball every last hand. i might just call with aq off on the button. but then again, i suk at holdem.

[Bearbare23]

One of the concepts of small ball is to keep your initial raises the same no matter what hands you are playing. That raise is usually 2x or 2.5x the blind. That way your opponents will not know if you are playing A-Q or 4-5s. Your bets are not usually to narrow the field but to disguise your hand without risking a large amount of chips. You do not necessarily want to build a big pot before the flop so it will be easier to control the pot size after the flop. Another key concept of small ball is to keep the pots small untill you are playing your monster hand. At least that is my understanding of what I have read. I have yet to be able to put small ball into action but I am looking forward to trying it .

[DrummerBoy21]

Originally Posted by KTeller™

why would you want to risk more chips (anti small ball) with 4-5 suited? i believe your to limp in w/ them vs the standard approach of folding a suited connector in EP

Raising with something like 4-5 suited is perfectly acceptable in the small ball approach, It's just more dependent on stack size and position, obviously you're not going to raise with 4-5 in EP if you don't have the stack behind to justify such a raise, but in late position and being fairly deep stacked those are the kinds of hands you want to make your 2x or 2.5x raises to because those are the sorts of hands your looking to catch people out with and bust them.

[HarlemzKing]

I'm actually a firm believer and student of the small ball approach ONLY FOR DEEP-STACKED TOURNAMENTS. I really would like to find another player who has a god grasp of small ball to compare and share strategies and lab once in a while. If you are at all interested, please send me a PM. I believe this would benefit both of our games in tournaments.

[HarlemzKing]

Originally Posted by DrummerBoy21

Raising with something like 4-5 suited is perfectly acceptable in the small ball approach, It's just more dependent on stack size and position, obviously you're not going to raise with 4-5 in EP if you don't have the stack behind to justify such a raise, but in late position and being fairly deep stacked those are the kinds of hands you want to make your 2x or 2.5x raises to because those are the sorts of hands your looking to catch people out with and bust them.

Even deep-stacked in EP you would make a small ball raise with 5-4s. The point of small ball is to project a wild, manical image when in all actuality you are playing the player and relying what should be excellent post-flop skills.

[DrummerBoy21]

Originally Posted by HarlemzKing

Even deep-stacked in EP you would make a small ball raise with 5-4s. The point of small ball is to project a wild, manical image when in all actuality you are playing the player and relying what should be excellent post-flop skills.

Yes, but ideally you want to be playing pots with these sorts of hands in position. Position is power after all.

[HarlemzKing]

Originally Posted by Anthony C

Hello all, I'm trying to learn how to play small ball in position the right way. Say i have A-Q suited on the button with three callers in front, how much should i be raising?

You would make a big raise, enough to offer the limpers less than 2-1 on a call. This is called a dead money grab. For example, let's say the blinds are 50-100. There's already 150 in the pot on a 10-handed table. Three limpers in front of you makes the pot 450. Raising to 600 is too little and is giving great odds to the players behind you. Raising to more like 1,000 is giving all of the players less than 2-1 on a call (900 more to win 1,400 are horrible odds for anyone to call unless they have KK or AA, QQ maybe.) You should only use this move sparingly when you sense that the limpers have nothing and your stack is deep enough. But when you have a monster, you can use this move to get paid off by someone who is a non-believer, and you flop a monster made or drawing hand.

[DrummerBoy21]

Originally Posted by HarlemzKing

You would make a big raise, enough to offer the limpers less than 2-1 on a call. This is called a dead money grab. For example, let's say the blinds are 50-100. There's already 150 in the pot on a 10-handed table. Three limpers in front of you makes the pot 450. Raising to 600 is too little and is giving great odds to the players behind you. Raising to more like 1,000 is giving all of the players less than 2-1 on a call (900 more to win 1,400 are horrible odds for anyone to call unless they have KK or AA, QQ maybe.) You should only use this move sparingly when you sense that the limpers have nothing and your stack is deep enough. But when you have a monster, you can use this move to get paid off by someone who is a non-believer, and you flop a monster made or drawing hand.

Perfectly quoted from the pokervt vid.