BPS Content thread 10/6

[Huff]

Originally Posted by gansen

one thing i find really bizarre about the discussion of cheats such as jjprodigy, russ hamilton, etc. is the notion that somehow there should or could be meaningful penalties imposed on these people.

i think shane and huff's general idea that there really is no governing body in a position to impose such penalties is very well-taken, but i have to wonder about the chances of these people encountering so-called street justice at some point in the future.

i am by no means advocating something like this, but as a recreational player who believes or at least wants to believe in the rich history and integrity of the game, it's disappointing to think that these cheaters may go largely unpunished. what sort of "penalties" are realistic given the situation?

Gansen e'rybody.

Not sure if it was coming through loud and clear, but I was trying to make the point that, for me, if you cheat people out of $6.1 million I think your penalty should be nothing short of a lifetime ban from both online (yes I know this is very tough, but it can't hurt to try), and live (much easier to pull off). I also think you should be stripped of any titles you have by poker's largest tournament "governing bodies," and should just overall be ostracized from the game.

To the point of poker's rich history and integrity, as I think you well know Gansen, part of that history involves a whole lot of cheating and lawlessness unfortunately. However, that is the whole point of having these discussions. I think Shane's point that there is no precedent is certainly true, but the greater point is that someone needs to set one. If we want to truly legitimize the game in the public eye, and grow it as an international sport, we're going to need to stop allowing known cheats to participate in our game. If people continue to cheat and collude live and online, not only will they dry up all the money that's coming into poker, but the game as a televised sport will have almost no appeal.

Look at boxing. Everyone has known it's a corrupt sport forever, and no insider of late has really done anything to try and clean it up. There are 18 bazillion governing bodies, none of which mean anything, or do anything to stand up for that games rich history and integrity either. And now we're stuck with MMA. (Yes I realize poker is not as popular as boxing at the height of the sport. But I don't think that makes this a faulty analogy.)

The World Series of Full Contact Bridge, coming your way in 2010.

[Lon VanPatten]

Looks like Russ "Sooners" Floyd is going to be allowed back on Stars soon, His post on 2+2

[gansen]

i agree with most of what you said, scott. i just find it surprising and deplorable that we're left with little more than what amounts to masturbation over what penalties might/should be available in these situations.

and while i do appreciate that the history of the game involves a lot of shady sh1t, indeed in those days and likely even in the present day i suspect so-called street justice was and remains to some extent the preferred method of "penalizing" such players.

for my part, the threat of a lifetime ban from live, online, or both forms of poker seems extremely toothless. these people obviously don't respect the game enough for it to really matter to them anyway; they've made it clear they're going to do what they want to do, and f everybody else anyway.

bad analogy time: it's like discovering some NCAA basketball players were shaving points, after they'd graduated. at that point, what can really be done about it? (this analogy would't apply to jjprodigy so much as russ hamilton's tubby washed up ass, i guess, but...)

that's why i do agree with stripping people of both the money they've made and any titles they've won along the way. did russ hamilton cheat during the 1994 world series? maybe, but maybe more likely not.

however, has he since disrespected the game on such a level as to warrant completely removing him from whatever place he may hold within the history of the game, including his WSOP ME title? i would say definitely, because from my perspective the emotional and historical value of winning a WSOP ME bracelet is enormous. it's the poker achievement of a lifetime. no matter what else one does as a poker player, no matter how many bad plays they make, and no matter how quickly they dust off their winnings (see: j. gold, 2006-2008), it can never be taken away from them.

the problem? maybe russ hamilton just didn't think before he got started in cheating people on his site. or worse still, maybe he thought about all of the things we've been discussing before hatching this scheme, and still decided he just didn't give an f about his place in history, his good name, or his ability to play future events in the event he got caught...

[QBEANZ]

I just wanted to say that Shaniac is ok and all but listning to the show last night i almost turned it off.I have never ever ever dreamed of doing this when BPS was the real BPS with huff and bob.It just was missing something in a big way.PR royalty Eugene Todd posted this in the "replace bob thread"

"enjoyed the show guys, but man i sure do miss bob's sense of humor, not that shaniac doesn't do a great job, but it just isn't the same show that i felt like i couldn't miss"

I couldnt have said it better myself, thats exactly how i feal about it.
And imo Shaniac isnt the right guy to replace bob although many of you love him for some reason
solid job last night as always Huff

RIP BPS i have fealing it will never be even close to the same

[gansen]

uh, why not give it a chance? it's been exactly one episode.

my feeling is pretty simple: bob won't be back, so they're going to have to find a solid replacement. while shane thus far is not as outspoken (or as funny while being outspoken) as bob, i don't know who would be. all the same, he's a very smart guy and isn't afraid of saying what's on his mind, which is a key element of the show. for that reason i still think it's very worthwhile to listen to and expect it to improve a lot over time...

[Huff]

Originally Posted by gansen

uh, why not give it a chance? it's been exactly one episode.

my feeling is pretty simple: bob won't be back, so they're going to have to find a solid replacement. while shane thus far is not as outspoken (or as funny while being outspoken) as bob, i don't know who would be. all the same, he's a very smart guy and isn't afraid of saying what's on his mind, which is a key element of the show. for that reason i still think it's very worthwhile to listen to and expect it to improve a lot over time...

Couldn't agree more. Give it time. Or don't. But Bob's not coming back.

Hating on Shane, who, like myself, is trying to entertain you and discuss issues important to the poker community, isn't going to make the show any better.

[TheMrAutomatic]

Originally Posted by Huff

Couldn't agree more. Give it time. Or don't. But Bob's not coming back.

Hating on Shane, who, like myself, is trying to entertain you and discuss issues important to the poker community, isn't going to make the show any better.

OR WILL IT?!

Have to have the haters to be truly successful.