12 Facts & BJ's Analysis of Clonie's Full Tilt Lawsuit

[99 Problems]

Originally Posted by FirstDonk

He used to be staked by Eric, I'm pretty sure he isn't anymore, like 99.5%. Gavin would have to provide insight into if they pay for his tournament entries or not, but since he barreled through the WSOP half ****faced the whole time I don't know if they would have wanted to sponsor him for the WSOP unless WSOP is a code word for AA meeting.

[BJ Nemeth]

Originally Posted by teetdogs

I have one question, people are saying that full tilt was probably paying her tournament entry fees but Gavin is a full tilt pro and they are not paying his entry fees as far as I can tell from what I have heard he is staked by Eric Lindgren. So why would they pay Clonies and not Gavins?

A lot of people are confused by this, so you're not alone. There are three primary categories of professional players affiliated with Full Tilt, not counting the Hendon Mobsters or the guys at Card Runners. (You can see the full lists of players on Full Tilt's website.)

Category 1: Team Full Tilt
These are the top representatives of Full Tilt that are shown in the TV commercials and all the marketing materials. There is no public correlation between Team Full Tilt players and shareholders in the company, but it's common knowledge inside the industry (and claimed in Clonie's lawsuit) that most of them, if not all, are shareholders.

A few players have been added to the team over the years, but Clonie is the first to have been dropped. With Clonie's departure, there are 13 players left on the team: Howard Lederer, Phil Ivey, Chris Ferguson, John Juanda, Jennifer Harman, Phil Gordon, Erick Lindgren, Erik Seidel, Andy Bloch, Mike Matusow, Gus Hansen, Allen Cunningham, Patrik Antonius, and until recently, Clonie Gowen.

Category 2: Full Tilt Pros
These players are under contract with Full Tilt, and play on the site as red pros. Full Tilt doesn't pay all of their tournament entry fees, but these players wear the Full Tilt logo in tournaments and are contractually obliged to wear it if they make any televised final tables (as long as it's allowed, of course). These players have no direct interest (such as shares of stock) in the company.

Full Tilt's website currently lists 99 players in this category, including Gavin Smith, Bill Edler, Erica Schoenberg, Jeff Madsen, Huckleberry Seed, David "The Dragon" Pham, Beth Shak, and many, many more.

Category 3: Friends of Full Tilt
I'm not sure of the specifics, but it's obviously a lower level of affiliation than the Full Tilt Pros in Category 2. This group includes 2007 WSOP champ Jerry Yang, along with some players in the media, such as Ali Nejad, Michael Craig, Jeremiah Smith, and James McManus.

I hope this clears up some of the confusion.

[teetdogs]

Originally Posted by BJ Nemeth

A lot of people are confused by this, so you're not alone. There are three primary categories of professional players affiliated with Full Tilt, not counting the Hendon Mobsters or the guys at Card Runners. (You can see the full lists of players on Full Tilt's website.)

Category 1: Team Full Tilt
These are the top representatives of Full Tilt that are shown in the TV commercials and all the marketing materials. There is no public correlation between Team Full Tilt players and shareholders in the company, but it's common knowledge inside the industry (and claimed in Clonie's lawsuit) that most of them, if not all, are shareholders.

A few players have been added to the team over the years, but Clonie is the first to have been dropped. With Clonie's departure, there are 13 players left on the team: Howard Lederer, Phil Ivey, Chris Ferguson, John Juanda, Jennifer Harman, Phil Gordon, Erick Lindgren, Erik Seidel, Andy Bloch, Mike Matusow, Gus Hansen, Allen Cunningham, Patrik Antonius, and until recently, Clonie Gowen.

Category 2: Full Tilt Pros
These players are under contract with Full Tilt, and play on the site as red pros. Full Tilt doesn't pay all of their tournament entry fees, but these players wear the Full Tilt logo in tournaments and are contractually obliged to wear it if they make any televised final tables (as long as it's allowed, of course). These players have no direct interest (such as shares of stock) in the company.

Full Tilt's website currently lists 99 players in this category, including Gavin Smith, Bill Edler, Erica Schoenberg, Jeff Madsen, Huckleberry Seed, David "The Dragon" Pham, Beth Shak, and many, many more.

Category 3: Friends of Full Tilt
I'm not sure of the specifics, but it's obviously a lower level of affiliation than the Full Tilt Pros in Category 2. This group includes 2007 WSOP champ Jerry Yang, along with some players in the media, such as Ali Nejad, Michael Craig, Jeremiah Smith, and James McManus.

I hope this clears up some of the confusion.

It does, thanks BJ! Someday I hope to grow up and be as smart as you But seriously thanks for clearing it up.

I do however find it a bit odd that Clonie would be would a member of Team Full Tilt over Gavin or any number of the Full Tilt Pros.

[shronk]

I think what we really need to discuss here are Clonie's looks and her tournament results. AMIRITE?

[Airnick15]

Originally Posted by shronk

I think what we really need to discuss here are Clonie's looks and her tournament results. AMIRITE?

*Ding*

[99 Problems]

Originally Posted by shronk

I think what we really need to discuss here are Clonie's looks and her tournament results. AMIRITE?

Story checks out.....pay the lady.

[BJ Nemeth]

Originally Posted by teetdogs

I do however find it a bit odd that Clonie would be would a member of Team Full Tilt over Gavin or any number of the Full Tilt Pros.

Team Full Tilt is an extremely selective club, and I think most would agree that Clonie got very lucky to get in on the ground floor. The timing worked out perfectly for her in 2004.

Only a few players have ever been added to that team. Jennifer Harman and Mike Matusow weren't on the team when the website went live, but that's reportedly only because of Harman's health problems at the time, and Matusow's legal problems at the time.

Patrik Antonius was the most recent member added, during this summer's WSOP, and during the press conference members of Team Full Tilt talked about what a big step it was to accept someone into that exclusive group. They said it wasn't something they considered for players who just won a couple of tournaments; they needed to see a long-term trend of play at the highest levels, and expect that level of play to continue, not for years, but for decades. (Howard Lederer used the word "decades" during the press conference.)

While they didn't mention it specifically, marketability is also clearly a factor. That plays against players like David "The Dragon" Pham, who don't speak English very well. It also works in the favor of an attractive woman like Clonie.

Since Clonie got in on the ground floor (they really wanted a woman on the team when the site went live), I don't think she was recruited by the same standards as Antonius, Allen Cunningham, or Gus Hansen.

Some might wonder why Daniel Negreanu isn't a member of Team Full Tilt -- it was entirely his choice. He negotiated a deal with PokerStars that he seems extremely happy with, but Full Tilt clearly made offers to him as well.

[99 Problems]

Originally Posted by BJ Nemeth

Some might wonder why Daniel Negreanu isn't a member of Team Full Tilt -- it was entirely his choice. He negotiated a deal with PokerStars that he seems extremely happy with, but Full Tilt clearly made offers to him as well.

makes you wonder how juicy the deal Daniel has with PS....or how little faith he had in ever seeing money from FT (they did have to wait several years to get paid, from what BJ has said, but is now seemingly paying off huge, well except Clownie)

[BJ Nemeth]

Originally Posted by 99 Problems

makes you wonder how juicy the deal Daniel has with PS....or how little faith he had in ever seeing money from FT (they did have to wait several years to get paid, from what BJ has said, but is now seemingly paying off huge, well except Clownie)

I don't think Daniel had any lack of faith in Full Tilt. Waiting three years to get paid on ownership shares isn't that bad, actually. But yes, I'm sure his deal with PokerStars is extremely juicy. Daniel is without question one of the most marketable players in the game -- if not the most. (Sorry, Hellmuth!)

[sexualbanana]

Originally Posted by 99 Problems

makes you wonder how juicy the deal Daniel has with PS....or how little faith he had in ever seeing money from FT (they did have to wait several years to get paid, from what BJ has said, but is now seemingly paying off huge, well except Clownie)

The agreements don't seem to be much different from any starts that require a venture capitalist or two. Where the VC contributes start-up capital and expertise in exchange for partial ownership, Team Members contributed their expertise and marketability (and probably in a few cases, start up capital) for, what I can only assume at this point, in exchange for maybe 1% of what potentially could be a multi-billion dollar company. Which adds up to a fairly sizeable chunk. Waiting 3 years to get money back on a start-up investment is actually pretty good. Especially considering the massive overhead costs that online poker sites probably have.