Thoughts on the WPT

gansen · #1 (**permalink**) 02-22-2009, 04:56 AM

it's dead.

example: i forget the exact verbiage, but huff asked the question that was on my mind this week on TBP, which was essentially, "has the WPT jumped the shark?" then, his two guests j-o'ed over the question for a good ten minutes without saying much worth hearing, even though huff asked some nice follow-ups, and the show went on.

sweet jesus. the WPT is done. over. it's cool if some young internet nerds win it, for the young internet nerds. it's just not interesting for the rest of us. there are no personalities left, and poker in terms of cards and math and mike sexton waving his arms while wearing a cheap suit and talking about how AJ is a great hand in a 4-handed poker game DOES NOT SELL ANYMORE.

i know how to play cards. i fancy myself OK at it, especially NLHE. i understand everything happening at these final tables just like almost everyone else reading this does, and watching bad beats, idiotic bluffs, huge moves, and coinflips doesn't interest me at all anymore. i know i've said it before: without personalities, poker as a game just doesn't sell. it's great to play, but garbage to watch without a hook. sorry all, but it's true.

but forget about me for a second. more important, in these economic times, is that most of america doesn't want to watch a bunch of maladjusted, virginal 22 year-olds "gambling" (as the uninitiated see it) for hundreds of thousands of dollars or more while wearing oversized sunglasses. the days of revenge of the nerds and short circuit are long over. is it that hard to fathom?

i stopped watching 5 episodes into this WPT season because their format and hosts are just unbelievably tired. i love poker, but seriously. it's been the same thing for a long, long time. is it any wonder even die-hard poker fans are losing interest?

at this point, and you heard it here first, the WPT would be vastly more watchable with huff and stapes as the hosts. their home-game roots and subsequent tournament coverage experience would, i suspect, be both technically sound and relatable to the audience, and it's not like WPT can do any worse...

("UIGEA-aside" note: even if the UIGEA is in some way taken off the books, i would go so far as to argue that the quote-unquote hayday of poker--large WSOP and WPT fields--may return, but is still not the future of poker as salable entertainment.)

gansen · #2 (**permalink**) 02-22-2009, 05:27 AM

eh, nevermind.

99 Problems · #3 (**permalink**) 02-22-2009, 10:35 AM

while I agree that the format is very tired and the players making it are less and less frequently interesting, the show still pulls ratings. Until the ratings really fall off or the contract isn't extended (which it just was) the WPT has no true motivation to change.

It honestly is SHOCKING to me how little the format has changed in the 6 seasons that have aired so far. While I think you find a winning format and run with it, I think there is room for vast improvements to the quality of the broadcast. I also can acknowledge that many changes are cost prohibitive but changes are necessary in order to GROW the brand. Again, I just don't know how motivated they are.

Obviously bringing in Huff and Stapes would be the Nuts. The format would be much more like the WSOP broadcasts on ESPN (yes I'm comparing them to Norm Chad, but funny and not played out) I think the casual (not you, me or anyone else that has ever visited a poker forum) has become sophisticated enough to the point that the announcers should be seen as a way to entertain the viewing audience, as opposed to educating them or pointing out the subtleties the situation.

BJ Nemeth · #4 (**permalink**) 02-22-2009, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gansen

more important, in these economic times, is that most of america doesn't want to watch a bunch of maladjusted, virginal 22 year-olds "gambling" (as the uninitiated see it) for hundreds of thousands of dollars or more while wearing oversized sunglasses. the days of revenge of the nerds and short circuit are long over. is it that hard to fathom?

Most of America doesn't watch American Idol, but it is one of the most successful TV shows ever created. There are hundreds of TV channels and thousands of TV shows, and many of them make money with ratings that are far lower than the WPT.

Is televised poker the fad that it was in 2003-2005? Of course not. But that doesn't mean it's dead.

You made some interesting points, but you seriously need to re-evaluate your definition of "dead."

99 Problems · #5 (**permalink**) 02-22-2009, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BJ Nemeth

Most of America doesn't watch American Idol, but it is one of the most successful TV shows ever created. There are hundreds of TV channels and thousands of TV shows, and many of them make money with ratings that are far lower than the WPT.

Is televised poker the fad that it was in 2003-2005? Of course not. But that doesn't mean it's dead.

You made some interesting points, but you seriously need to re-evaluate your definition of "dead."

Agreed, as I said from everything I hear is that the show is still pulling significant ratings (by Poker/Sports content standards)

gansen · #6 (**permalink**) 02-23-2009, 12:26 AM

maybe i overstated it a bit, but from a personal perspective i'm simply over the WPT. i'm sure there are others out there who are likeminded, but i doubt we're likely to run across them on these boards...

BJ Nemeth · #7 (**permalink**) 02-23-2009, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gansen

maybe i overstated it a bit, but from a personal perspective i'm simply over the WPT. i'm sure there are others out there who are likeminded, but i doubt we're likely to run across them on these boards...

To be honest, I don't watch as much poker on TV as I should. (I am a poker journalist, after all.) But the TV networks have these things called "ratings" that they use to measure how many people are watching each week. It's far more effective than anecdotal evidence that they can find in forums. [/Snarky Sarcasm]

It sounds like your original point is that WPT ratings are down over the past few years. Which everyone already knows. And as much as I love Huff & Stapes, I don't think having them announce the action will affect the ratings very much.

gansen · #8 (**permalink**) 02-23-2009, 03:27 AM

no. my point is that whatever appeal the WPT once held for me, either i've changed to the point of being disinterested, or the product is no longer something that holds mass appeal. is it the WPT or poker in general? who knows?

your attempt at humor aside--and trust me, i get it--i have no access to the ratings so i have no idea how the show is doing these days. i am aware of WPTE's financial troubles, of course.

what i can tell you is that from my perspective and my perspective alone (although i don't think i'm alone, i can only speak for myself), WPT broadcasts have become predictable and tiresome due to both the hosts/format and the [lacking] personalities of the players who make televised tables these days.

i know you work for WPT, but are you able to look beyond that and ask yourself if the WPT as poker television is still a relevant product? again, i submit it is not.

passthesugar · #9 (**permalink**) 02-23-2009, 08:44 AM

i watch wpt on pokertube......but i do find it fairly formulaic. i still like it but i don't really see the average tv fan searching for it anymore, esp since its not on at a standard time slot now.

i hear alot of people talking about changing up the show but i'm not sure what they can do to engage the average fan. the names aren't there, and the charisma and energy is gone as well.

BJ Nemeth · #10 (**permalink**) 02-23-2009, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gansen

i know you work for WPT, but are you able to look beyond that and ask yourself if the WPT as poker television is still a relevant product? again, i submit it is not.

It completely depends on your definition of "relevant product."

Is the WPT relevant to the poker industry? Yes, it is *hugely* relevant. Is it relevant to Entertainment Weekly or Ad Age? No. Is it relevant to poker fans? Yes, because there are enough of them that it continues to draw in profitable ratings.

You seem to be burnt out on the format, and there is nothing wrong with that. There are dozens and dozens of channels, and there are plenty of other things for you to watch. But there are also hundreds of thousands people who continue to watch the WPT on TV.

The TV market is far more segmented and specialized than it was 20 years ago. There is definitely room for the WPT on TV, even if you and your friends don't watch it.