The Poker Beat - April 23rd at 1pm

[BJ Nemeth]

Originally Posted by 5Street83

I think there's a general perception by people in the TV Poker industry that the general public is either uninterested in PLO or just can't figure out (Mori Eskandani is a prime example of one with this idea). I don't really agree with it b/c PLO has grown exponentially in popularity and I don't think it's that hard to follow. Unfortunately, you just have to be realistic and wait for the influential folks to come around on PLO.

I'm not defending ESPN's decisions on what to televise, but I have to point out that I have covered Omaha final tables at the World Series of Poker -- with presumably some of the best players in the world -- and when the hands were shown down on the river, it has sometimes taken 20-30 seconds for everyone (including dealer and TD) to figure out who won the pot.

Pot-limit also lessens the drama of the all-in shove, and there are sometimes built-in delays to calculate the size of the pot. All of this weighs down the game for the casual fan or someone not paying close attention. (If baseball, football, and basketball were televised in a way that you had to pay close attention to get anything out of it, they would lose half their audience.)

You can't deny the fact that pot-limit Omaha is a more confusing game than hold'em. And there are far more casual poker fans than hard core poker fans out there -- and those are the ones you are most likely to lose in the ratings.

[5Street83]

Originally Posted by BJ Nemeth

I'm not defending ESPN's decisions on what to televise, but I have to point out that I have covered Omaha final tables at the World Series of Poker -- with presumably some of the best players in the world -- and when the hands were shown down on the river, it has sometimes taken 20-30 seconds for everyone (including dealer and TD) to figure out who won the pot.

Pot-limit also lessens the drama of the all-in shove, and there are sometimes built-in delays to calculate the size of the pot. All of this weighs down the game for the casual fan or someone not paying close attention. (If baseball, football, and basketball were televised in a way that you had to pay close attention to get anything out of it, they would lose half their audience.)

You can't deny the fact that pot-limit Omaha is a more confusing game than hold'em. And there are far more casual poker fans than hard core poker fans out there -- and those are the ones you are most likely to lose in the ratings.

BJ, I don't really disagree that when you have a PLO showdown or when following action in a hand, it is more complex to analyze who has what or what cards a player is drawing to. I'm actually not one of the bigger PLO fans out there and I used to be lost when watching PLO, but I was watching a cash game televised on FSN that was half NLH and half PLO and I found that I've gotten better at following the action by gradual exposure to it.

The 10K PLO episode from last year's WSOP happened to be very boring IMO (although that was just one PLO final table). This discussion made me think of a few comments that the late, great Shronk made in his live blog of the 10k PLO episode that ESPN showed last summer.
Shronk wrote:
"PLO is so weird. Grinder leads out into three players with a straight (drawing dead of course), Croc smooth calls with second nuts (Queens full), Irish Guy folds A-A-9-7 (for 9-9-9-A-Q, which I think is the 6th nuts), and young guy folds K-K-2-2. The A-A and K-K were in the pot for one bet preflop and both folded the turn without ever putting anymore money in the pot. PLO is so weird."

"Ok, I'm kinda over this final table. Someone flop a set against a wrap and let's get this over with."

"NICE! Both guys flop the same straight, and one guy has a flush draw. I'm on a total cooler freeroll for this thing to be over."

Link to Shronk's live blog:
http://www.pokerroad.com/pokerazzi/8-30-08/

[BJ Nemeth]

Originally Posted by 5Street83

BJ, I don't really disagree that when you have a PLO showdown or when following action in a hand, it is more complex to analyze who has what or what cards a player is drawing to. I'm actually not one of the bigger PLO fans out there and I used to be lost when watching PLO, but I was watching a cash game televised on FSN that was half NLH and half PLO and I found that I've gotten better at following the action by gradual exposure to it.

Shronk's live blogs were great.

Of course, exposure to the game on TV will educate more of the public, but they have to want to be educated, or they'll just turn the channel. And TV producers are under pressure to get ratings now, and not some unspecified point in the future when fans may or may not grow to love your show.

[Bthoven]

I think there is a big difference in what the serious poker aficionado and the casual viewer are looking for in a poker show (luckily HSP fits both those groups or we wouldn't have any 'good' poker on TV). The reality is that the casual viewers are the ones who provide the ratings so that will always be the group that tv poker is geared towards. These people are watching purely for entertainment and they don't want to have to spend a lot of though to understand or watch the shows. I have several friends who fall into this group. After finding out they watch poker I have told stories or made comments involving basic poker concepts only to have them look at me with this blank look of total incomprehension. They just like the all ins.

[Airnick15]

Originally Posted by 5carab

Yeah, I loved going back over the old non-hold'em WSOP episodes. I find them WAY more interesting, and although people find other games boring (unless they actually understand poker), I think missing out on any coverage of things like the 10k World Championship event and particularly the 50k HORSE is a joke. I think they should have an episode of HORSE at least, and preferably some sort of minor broadcast of non-hold'em events at less prestigious times so that people can still watch if they want (and I can stream off the net).

Yeah I had no interest in them when I was first watching, and I feel the same way when I see the Ted Lawson episode. Other than that, I love them.

[TracerBullet]

i'm glad stapes took a shot at cardplayer. seriously, eff that entire corporation.

[driver]

Originally Posted by TracerBullet

i'm glad stapes took a shot at cardplayer.

My thoughts exactly, well said Stapes. Stay classy indeed Cardplayer. Whoever made the decision to say nothing about their past intern turn good guy of poker made a very poor decision.

[BJ Nemeth]

Originally Posted by driver

My thoughts exactly, well said Stapes. Stay classy indeed Cardplayer. Whoever made the decision to say nothing about their past intern turn good guy of poker made a very poor decision.

I won't lie; when I heard the Tight Laydown by Stapes, I thought he addressed the Card Player situation perfectly -- and I'm glad somebody did. (I couldn't do it myself without being a total prick about it.)

For the record, Card Player's lead tournament reporter, Ryan Lucchesi, knew Shronk well, and he dedicated an entire entry in his Card Player blog to Shronk:

http://www.cardplayer.com/poker-news/blogs/article/5067

No, it didn't go up right away, but it was Lucchesi's first blog after the tragedy, and it's a very touching tribute. I especially like that he focused on Shronk's great wit rather than the silly prop bets that he is more famous for.

Card Player has yet to post anything official, but I do expect to see something in the printed magazine. (One of the next two issues, depending on the print deadlines.)

[scott diamond]

I posted my thoughts in Other Topics thread under Bluff Magazine.

I encourage everyone to add their thoughts on CP. waiting to put something in a magazine is very wrong

[Airnick15]

Yeah read the Lucchesi blog, I only go to that site for their blogs these days and I'm glad I don't waste my time reading any articles.