Here's a Super Deep Hand for All You Live Pros

[Ariel Schneller]

This game was over the summer. It was a private game (the kind that the guys who want to start it all show up at the same time so there's no seats for anybody not invited) that I got a seat in after one of the regs left. 25/50 half and half, No-Limit and PLO (PLO with a 15k cap). I'm pretty much the only person who doesn't know everybody. Everybody's oldish, mid-30's or older. Villain in the hand is the exception: he is new to the table and we played 1 orbit of PLO in which he raised preflop a few times. He sat down with 15k and quadrupled up when he and 3 people got it in on the turn in PLO on a KTQ4 flush draw board. He had KKxx and filled up on the river after sighing and calling the cap when it was all-in to him closing the action. He is listening to an iPod with one earphone in. Somebody called him "the hedge fund kid" so I don't think he's a pro.

So cliff's notes: youngish guy doesn't know who I am with a 60k stack. I cover.

First hand of NLHE he raises UTG to 200. MP calls, I call next to act with 44. The blinds both call.

Flop (1000): J 2 4 rainbow. Villain checks, MP bets 800. I call fairly quickly which I normally don't do but against this guy who's super bluffy I'm slowplaying. Blinds fold. Here's where it gets interesting: Villain check/raises to 4k. MP folds. I think for maybe 10 seconds and call.
Turn: 9 putting up a flush draw.
He guns out very quickly for 11k. I make it seem like I have a decision, think for about 30 seconds and call.
River: off-suit 6.

Here's where it gets interesting: now that the 6 has come it's very hard for me to have nothing. 35 got there so it's now very hard for me to have nothing by the river. And if he has a good one pair hand (which I'm hoping) such as AA/KK it seems as though the live predilection towards not playing huge pots with one pair (plus the likelihood that he thinks I have this predilection as he doesn't know I'm a lunatic) dictates that he exercise some pot control on the river. Furthermore, if I bet the river it's going to be hard for me to sell that I have AJ/KJ so he's only beating an awful value bet from worse or a crazy double float. In other words, I think if he bets I don't like it and if he checks betting isn't as obvious as it seems.

Then again, all I know about him is that he's youngish and listens to an iPod, he might not be that good. We have 40k stacks and a 30k pot. Here are my questions:
1) If he bets, what bet sizes, if any, do you call?
2) If he bets, what bet sizes, if any, do you fold to?
3) If he bets, what bet sizes, if any, do you jam over?
4) If he checks, what do you do?

I think this is a crazy spot and I'm hoping some of you deepstacked pros can chime in.

[Isaac Haxton]

I'd call up to 15k or so, fold for more, don't jam over any size bet. If he checks I bet 15k and hope he makes a mistake. I think he's never checking better and shouldn't really call with any of the hands he's checking, but he might. I could see him not getting away from 222 or even AA or J9 or something.

[Daniel Alaei]

1) I'm not looking to fold so depending on the player I might call it all.
2) above
3) This is a feel thing. I got a feeling he has two aces so if he bets something like 10k I'd probably raise him, but I'd probably call most bets 15k+
4) I'd bet between 15 and 25k

[Tom Dwan]

if he checks i might bet 14kish and plan on calling. To any other sizing i put all the money in, barring some read, which could definitely make me fold to a 15k bet, but he'd need to do some grossly bad stuff for that to happen.

[Niman Kenkre]

Wow this is so player/read dependent. My default answers are as follows:

I would probably fold to a "confident" bet. Not sure what that means exactly in terms of size, but at this point, he has to be at least a little concerned even if he has 22. Furthermore, there was no plausible missed draw that he could have been semibluffing. Therefore, if he makes a bet that you can read as full of confidence, I would muck. If it is more of a "God I have a good hand and I can't imagine checking, but I am scared" bet, I would call. But unlike the others, in this spot, given that the flop was so draw free (and the only draw got there) I would be leaning towards a fold against a strong river bet.

I would never raise a bet from him. The hand range with which he bet-calls your push probably has you in bad shape.

If would take an incredibly sophisticated (or stupid) play for him to check here having you beat, so if he checked, I'd bet about 19K. On the other hand, that amount leaves him with absolutely no apparent fold equity, so unless he is a gross overplayer and/or there is some intense leveling going on, I might fold to a check raise push. ... Another alternative (though not one that appeals to me) might be to overbet shove the river if he checks and potentially turn your play into a two-way (bluff vs JJ or value bet vs 22).

[Ariel Schneller]

Originally Posted by Niman Kenkre

Wow this is so player/read dependent. My default answers are as follows:

I would probably fold to a "confident" bet. Not sure what that means exactly in terms of size, but at this point, he has to be at least a little concerned even if he has 22. Furthermore, there was no plausible missed draw that he could have been semibluffing. Therefore, if he makes a bet that you can read as full of confidence, I would muck. If it is more of a "God I have a good hand and I can't imagine checking, but I am scared" bet, I would call. But unlike the others, in this spot, given that the flop was so draw free (and the only draw got there) I would be leaning towards a fold against a strong river bet.

I would never raise a bet from him. The hand range with which he bet-calls your push probably has you in bad shape.

If would take an incredibly sophisticated (or stupid) play for him to check here having you beat, so if he checked, I'd bet about 19K. On the other hand, that amount leaves him with absolutely no apparent fold equity, so unless he is a gross overplayer and/or there is some intense leveling going on, I might fold to a check raise push. ... Another alternative (though not one that appeals to me) might be to overbet shove the river if he checks and potentially turn your play into a two-way (bluff vs JJ or value bet vs 22).

I think I agree with you about never raising. My thought was that, absent some read on how he put in his chips, I would fold to any big bet (25k or so) and would call any bet of 20k or less as I would then think he could be valuebetting AA/KK (not that it would be a good value bet, but irrelevant).

I definitely think that given how hard it is for me to have just one pair, if he bets big when the only draw I could have gets there, he's going to be worried with 22 and so I'll have to give JJ more credit than 22.

Anyway, in the hand he checked, I bet 15k, he called without much thought and mucked saying "that's what i thought he had." Easy game.