Stud 8 Line Check, Stars 8 Game SCOOP

[Bryan Devonshire]

Hey just a quick line check, I've been having trouble with big pairs, most of my questions hinge around third and fifth.

Tournament - 7 Card Stud High-Low - Level VI (80/160), Ante 16, Bring-In 24 (converter)

seat 1 - vovtroy: 1,949
seat 3 - Hero: 6,524
seat 4 - floes: 6,333
seat 6 - jmonnett: 3,239

3rd Street - (1.20 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 2___brings-in___calls
Seat 2: xx xx J___folds
Hero: K 3 K___raises___calls
Seat 4: xx xx 2___folds
Seat 5: xx xx 6___calls___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 8___raises

4th Street - (9.20 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 2 J___calls
Hero: K 3 K 4___checks___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 6 T___checks___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 8 2___bets

5th Street - (6.60 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx 2 J 6___calls___calls
Hero: K 3 K 4 K___bets___raises
Seat 5: xx xx 6 T 5___calls___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 8 2 T___raises___calls

6th Street - (18.60 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx 2 J 6 5___calls
Hero: K 3 K 4 K 7___bets
Seat 5: xx xx 6 T 5 6___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 8 2 T 3___calls

River - (22.60 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx 2 J 6 5 xx___calls
Hero: K 3 K 4 K 7 Q___checks___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 6 T 5 6 xx___checks___folds
Seat 6: xx xx 8 2 T 3 xx___bets

Total pot: (25.60 BB)

[Chris Vitch]

Seems totally standard until the river where you should bet. Seat 6 has AA or rolled up more than anything else btw.

[Justin Bonomo]

Maybe I play bad, but I play this hand very differently.

I fold 3rd.

I think I raise 4th. Am I wrong in thinking we get the 5 seat to fold? jomonnett is good enough to rely on to 3 bet here, and we can prolly get Vovtroy to fold too. Don't forget he was the bring-in, so his range stands to be weaker than we might expect.

We definitely have tons of equity on 5th. Bet and 3 bet for sure.

6th: standard

7th: We should have enough equity to bet here. We get called by hands competing for the low in multiple spots a lot.

I'd love to hear feedback on my 4th street logic.

Edit: you posted the 4 seat's name even though he folded on 3rd and did not post the 5 seat's name.

[Joe Tall]

You have to be the river here, you have too much value and this also works as a blocking bet (very similar to NLHE), tbh, to the weak hi/lows that could jam you with a raise. Say 6T56 bets ( trip 6s), 82T3 raises a low and now 2J65 makes his strong low and jams, what to do now?

When you are 1st to act into a field here, with a strong high hand that cannot fold, you have put this bet out.

[Joe Tall]

Originally Posted by Justin Bonomo

Maybe I play bad, but I play this hand very differently.

I fold 3rd.

With is high-ish ante, no ace behind, it's marginal enough complete here. Image, game condition, opponent dependent should be factors, looks like too loose of a field to stealing from so folding is not out of the question, one less low to act after (non-Ace) and I'd raise 100% of the time.

I think I raise 4th. Am I wrong in thinking we get the 5 seat to fold? jomonnett is good enough to rely on to 3 bet here, and we can prolly get Vovtroy to fold too. Don't forget he was the bring-in, so his range stands to be weaker than we might expect.

You want to C/R the field here? There is just not enough value and getting HU doesnt help you enough, be happy closing the action for 1-bet and play 5th accordingly.

[Bryan Micon]

I have been playing alot of HORSE recently and I feel I may add a few things:

1) I feel raising 3rd is borderline here. If the bring in puts you in late position, it's an easy raise IMO. If the bring in puts you in early-middle as it does here, I tend to fold this early in tournaments, while and easy raise when the blinds are huge and everyone only has a handful of BB's. I would love to hear what a cash game stud8 player would do here as the "baseline play."

2) I like check/calling 7th in Stud8 when running a less-than-a-flush high hand vs. multiple low hands - the value of stud8 low hands come when they freeroll to complete a high hand, obv.

3) seat 6 could be a high or a low hand - either he as AA or 888 (less likely) or he is the type of player that would raise a combo-draw on 5, such as a lot of low spades (more likely considering zero dead low spades). Def. a check/call on 7th if you put him on this type of hand.

4) Blind read: seat 6 wins at least the high.

[Barry Greenstein]

In a tournament, it is a definite raise to start with big pairs with no higher cards, especially no Ace, behind you. I would also raise with this in a cash game, but in tournaments you get more fold equity on later streets from players who hit a bad card and try to avoid losing too much chasing the low half of the pot.

You should have bet the river, as people have mentioned. In stud variations, you bet a lot of time when you are first to act on the river when you are afraid that you may get raised. The pots get big and you frequently get paid off because players realize that there are times you are just betting your strong board with nothing in the hole.

In this particular hand, your opponent may even pay you off with just Aces hoping that you started with a three flush. Also, you may not get raised when you are beat because your opponent fears a reraise with Kings full.

Barry