Omaha Eight or Better decision from the WSOPE HORSE event

[Bryan Devonshire]

Originally Posted by Barry Greenstein

No, it's not worse to put less money in the pot when you have the worst hand, although you may claim that the extra information offsets it a little. This certainly wasn't what you were hoping for when you decided to three bet this hand instead of call.

Barry

def true agree 100%.

my thought is more of a question I suppose... cause if we 3/bet and they 4/bet from the blinds, our idea of their range is pretty clear, but if we flat and they 3 bet, I can see us feeling pretty awkward on many streets on many boards.

[Aaron Bartley]

Originally Posted by Bryan Devonshire

def true agree 100%.

my thought is more of a question I suppose... cause if we 3/bet and they 4/bet from the blinds, our idea of their range is pretty clear, but if we flat and they 3 bet, I can see us feeling pretty awkward on many streets on many boards.

I agree. The whole point of 3betting here, to me, is to get the hand HU in position. I don't like my hand in a 4 way pot, and I don't like putting in a couple of bets and then folding and I REALLY don't like putting a couple of bets in, then having to call down because I flopped a 2nd nut draw, or top two, and being taken to valuetown.

I agree that if you 3bet and get 4bet you are pretty bummed. But thats the risk you run in opening action up in poker. The only good side of getting 4bet is that, especially if it is one of the weaker players, you can pretty much give them an ace and a two and make a strong supposition as to the other cards.

[Barry Greenstein]

Originally Posted by Daniel Negreanu

In the book she describes that if a late position player raises, and you have 55 on the button, you should 3 bet the hand.

This is even more true in tournaments where you really only have two good options: raise or fold. Calling there invites the big blind into the pot and you find yourself in the worst case scenario with a small pair- playing it 3 handed. 55 does well heads up, and it also does well in a five way action pot, but playing it three handed is not a good thing.

The same holds true in Omaha 8 or better with marginal hands that have both high and low features. I would rather 3-bet that button with the AJ58 double suited or an AQ48 than I would with A-2-7-9 or A-K-J-10.

I think this is a good analogy by Daniel, but I was trying to decide how accurate it was. I think that the Omaha hand in question is actually closer in strength to 6-6 or even 7-7 in limit hold'em.

I may be tighter than the average poster in this thread, but I fold 5-5 in position to a raise except against loose middle position raisers, late position raisers, or in a tournament when I want to create extra volatility. And when I play these small to middle pairs in position against a raise, I three bet them.

To get this hand closer to a pair of fives, I would weaken it by taking away a suit (maybe even the nut flush one), changing the 5 to a 6, or even changing the 8 to a 9 which would remove some "emergency low" possibilities.

And on another note, since Daniel mentioned this the two times he saw me since this thread went up, he swears his cheese was double suited.

Barry

[David Benyamine]

Barry, I would never pass in that case in regard to the blinds and your chip stack. I would three bet, fo sho. You have have enough chips to take shots with hands like that when you're on the button with that stack. I would want to give myself a chance to go on a big rush and that situtation looks like a perfect chance to do so...I would, however, fold if my stack was 9-10k or less. I might not have considered the fact that you hadn't slept much, since that would never happen to me.

[Gus Hansen]

I didn't think that anybody could get MR. Phil Ivey Himself to post on any forum -
But I'm very happy Phil did post because it saves me from a lot of trouble dissecting the ins and outs of the actual hand. I have never in my life not 3-bet with that kind of holding, on the button against a late position raiser - to me it's a mandatory 3-bet!
To make sure everybody understands what Im saying - Barry is absolutely right - I would also have 3-bet if the Ace was any other suited card!!!