2k/4k O8 turn play

[Brian Hastings]

I'm relatively new to O8 and was really lost as to what the best turn line here. Ziigmund is very aggressive preflop and his capping range certainly isn't limited to premiums. The flop check is kind of weird too and confused me. Thoughts?

FullTiltPoker Game #8344871942: Table Gus (6 max) - $2000/$4000 - Limit Omaha H/L - 12:30:51 ET - 2008/10/04
Seat 1: world1969 ($179,222.50)
Seat 2: Brian Hastings ($75,227)
Seat 4: Ziigmund ($52,223)
Seat 6: Phil Ivey ($124,980)
Brian Hastings posts the small blind of $1,000
Ziigmund posts the big blind of $2,000
5 seconds left to act
Phil Ivey is sitting out
Time has expired
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Brian Hastings [Td 7c Ah As]
world1969 raises to $4,000
Brian Hastings raises to $6,000
Ziigmund raises to $8,000
world1969 calls $4,000
Brian Hastings calls $2,000
*** FLOP *** [3h 5c Jc]
Brian Hastings checks
Ziigmund checks
world1969 checks
*** TURN *** [3h 5c Jc] [2d]

[Barry Greenstein]

When you get players transitioning to O8 from PLO, they tend to overvalue their high hands. When you get players transitioning to O8 from Stud 8, they tend to play exclusively low hands. Ziigmund is, of course, in the first category.

Ziigmund is a great PLO player when he is on, but he can be pretty crazy at both PLO and O8. When he checks this flop, he probably was going high, although he may have checked because the 3 paired him and he has no backup wheel card. He may have a hand like AKKJ, but Ziigmund is easily capable of having a Queen instead of the Ace and even worse. If he had a high/low hand, it may be something like AKQ3 or AK83.

When he checks the flop, he doesn't have a club draw, and he probably doesn't have the stiff A or he may still have bet. So you expect the A will be in world1969's hand, but he checked also which makes you think neither of them hold it.

You can close your eyes and bet the turn and hope you don't hear the extra clicking sound of a raise. But if Ziigmund raises, you know you've been fooled. If that happens, he must have hoped that world1969 was going to bet when it was checked to him on the flop. You will probably follow through with two crying calls because of Ziigmund's well-deserved reputation.

Barry

[Daniel Negreanu]

I don't know much about Zigmund but he takes a pretty weird line in this hand to 4-bet and then check a flop that looks like it should help any hand worth 4-betting in that spot. I don't buy that he flopped a monster and is check-raising world because the strength in the hand was shown by you, not world, and he's less likely to bet than you are on that flop.

I agree completely with Barry about the assumption that he likely has a high hand, possibly even the other AA with a 3, or a hand like KK34. Either way, him having the A-4 or the 4-6 is very unlikely. I wouldn't be worried about his hand in the least, I'd be more inclined to worry that world may have some funky hand that contains A-4 or 4-6.

I'd bet out and try to protect my high hand while also possibly looking to 3 quarter Zigmund if he has the other AA. Also, a bet from you in this spot looks totally legit. There is no reason for them to think you don't have the A-4, so if raised, you can actually dump the hand pretty safely against most players. Especially if you get raised by world in a heads up situation. He'd HAVE to have A-4 or 4-6 leaving you drawing dead. Bet to protect the hand, while at the same time find out almost certainly if you have a shot at either side of the pot.

[Bryan Devonshire]

nice post daniel

[Joe Tall]

Little trouble with the raw-HH so I converted it here, hope you dont mind.

Full Tilt Poker $2000/$4000 Limit Omaha Hi/Lo - 3 players
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

Pre Flop: (1.5 SB) Hero is SB with T 7 A A
BTN raises, Hero 3-bets, BB caps!, BTN calls, Hero calls

Flop: (12 SB) 3 5 J (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, BTN checks

Turn: (6 BB) 2 (3 players)

Final Pot: 6 BB


You have to bet the turn, and I agree that PLO-regulars overvalue high hands in situations like this. They expect you to 3-bet with all your A2/3 hands and 4-bet light, thinking they will end up HU on the flop with position when this is often untrue.

Btw, if I have the AxA, I may just donk this flop, fwiw after a cap pre, as I would donk most strong draws in this situation to avoid a check-through. But as played, flop is fine.