PokerRoad Forums
PokerRoad

Go Back   PokerRoad Forums > Poker Discussion > Shadow Forum to Red Pro Discussions

Shadow Forum to Red Pro Discussions The same threads that are in the Red Pro Forum will be copied here for everyone to discuss. No new threads are allowed to be created here.

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 02-22-2009, 10:56 PM
charder30 aka zj123
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: ..Maryland..
Posts: 38
Default REPOST: River spot in pokerstars 109+ rebuys.

villian in this hand is a winner in 500 tourneys and has been reasonbly in line, his location is stockholm. Thoughts on every street + river. Thanks

PokerStars Game #25252970398: Tournament #140556034, $100+$9 Hold'em No Limit - Level XV (1000/2000) - 2009/02/22 23:30:21 ET
Table '140556034 38' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: The Camel (59781 in chips)
Seat 3: joshuah333 (100402 in chips)
Seat 4: Pimplyteen (37944 in chips)
Seat 5: SexSeen (41055 in chips)
Seat 6: bliiz (72545 in chips)
Seat 7: charder30 (78128 in chips)

Seat 8: Jrock0419ny (26500 in chips)
Seat 9: Sdouble (11414 in chips)
The Camel: posts the ante 200
joshuah333: posts the ante 200
Pimplyteen: posts the ante 200
SexSeen: posts the ante 200
bliiz: posts the ante 200
charder30: posts the ante 200
Jrock0419ny: posts the ante 200
Sdouble: posts the ante 200
bliiz: posts small blind 1000
charder30: posts big blind 2000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to charder30 [K T]
Jrock0419ny: folds
Sdouble: folds
The Camel: folds
joshuah333: folds
Pimplyteen: folds
SexSeen: folds
bliiz: raises 4000 to 6000
charder30: calls 4000

*** FLOP *** [3 7 T]
bliiz: checks
charder30: bets 8000
bliiz: calls 8000

*** TURN *** [3 7 T] [6]
bliiz: checks
charder30: bets 18250
bliiz: calls 18250

*** RIVER *** [3 7 T 6] [7]
bliiz: bets 40095 and is all-in
charder30:
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on FacebookReddit!
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 02-23-2009, 08:36 PM
Rikadu's Avatar
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 226
Send a message via MSN to Rikadu Send a message via Skype™ to Rikadu
Default

I Call, because I think that he wouldn't expect Charder to 2nd barrel as a bluff that much so he'd CRAI on the turn with hands strong enough to value shove the river like that.

I mean people sometimes wake up here with the nuts or w/e, but its a fishy line in general.

Last edited by Rikadu; 02-23-2009 at 08:50 PM.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on FacebookReddit!
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 02-25-2009, 04:09 AM
LvOverRide's Avatar
PokerRoad Junkie
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 805
Default

Okay, so here's my question regarding this hand: what did the villain check-call the flop and turn with that he is now turning into a bluff?

It just seems strange that he'd play a hand like pocket eights this way, especially if your read is that he isn't really getting out of line a lot. He could have a worse ten I guess, but then why shove the river? Pretty much the only hand he could be playing this way is 68s, but then he has to randomly take a passive line on the flop and turn, then decide to try and make a desperation rep of seven using his entire stack. I don't buy it, and even if I did, if he'll play a straight draw this way, then he could easily have 89 and be taking a strange line figuring it's the best way to get you to pay off with a ten.

Besides, I assume your bet on the turn was to get value from a hand like, say, 87s, correct? That's very possibly a hand he could have here if he's the stubborn type. He could've also been trapping all the way with a set or a random two pair. There's all kinds of funky value hands he can have, and not enough bluffing hands.

I just don't see how he can be bluffing here, and if he isn't bluffing, you're not winning.
__________________
"I've never taken a shot at you. All I've done is click auto-post." -Tom Dwan
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on FacebookReddit!
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 02-25-2009, 08:06 PM
Beginning Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2
Default

i fold. seems like it would be a sick bluff line to take...
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on FacebookReddit!
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 02-26-2009, 11:08 PM
Beginning Poster
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 14
Default

i call because its sb-bb and because of pot odds, but i think he got it more then he is bluffing here since he will have to call twice with air in order to bluff.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on FacebookReddit!
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2009, 04:22 AM
Beginning Poster
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 18
Default

This hand looks very straightforward to me and I would never dream of imagining someone bluffing here unless he had a really sick maniac image. People in the 100 rebuy don't float two streets normally... could easily be AA or KK or even a 7 or a straight. Kind of leaning toward AA or KK though. I take this line all the time against certain players and it's a great value line. A bunch of people are much more likely to fold to big turn raises then big river bets in my experience.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on FacebookReddit!
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2009, 05:13 AM
100% HUSTLE's Avatar
PokerRoad Degenerate
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,991
Send a message via AIM to 100% HUSTLE
Default

take a second and replay the hand in your head.

it went;

preflop: he raised 3x BB in SB. maybe he has something (any PP) and maybe he has nothing (just high cards and suited aces maybe a suited king if he's as crazy as you think).

but as the hand plays out.....

flop: check, you bet 1100 more than half pot. he .....calls?!

always look at the betting/calling patterns for reasons below.

it's starting to get weird too, because of the reverse implied odds you're creating as you build the pot. i mean, for all you know he could have a made set or two pair and be on some what of a freeroll and has decide to let you dig your own ditch.

also, you only have top pair second best kicker.

check call is tooooo weak and smells of a trap on a later street. if he thinks you are strong or bluffing and will bet due to his (weak) check he may check/call as away to feel out how strong (confident) you really are and play out the hand from there based on his read of your bet.

as vague as it looked your little more than half pot bet basically told him you have top pair or an over pair and wanted to play for a big pot, if you thought your hand was good*.

(* mind you, opponents from any country are still capable of thinking on high levels, and capable of setting traps based on their read of how the table has perceived their image to be, as could be the case here. he could have raised for value with pocket 3's to steal the blinds, hit bottom set and now has decided to show weakness to slow play a hidden monster to your top pair or over pair, letting you bait your own trap by building the pot up even more.)

turn: he checks, you bet a little over half pot again. he.....calls again?!?!

ALARMS SHOULD BE GOING OFF IN YOUR HEAD!!

so in summary up to this point,

1. you told him two times with your betting that you have a semi-good hand,
and both times he called as if not worried about what you were representing (top pair or over pair).

2. your controlling the pot size with position is a little lacking with only top pair.

3. because of the betting and the size of the pot you risk being bluffed on the river or stacked with your mediocre holding (would you play K-J or K-Q this way on jack or queen high board?)


river: after all this to contemplate......the board pairs and is some what of a perfect scare card and, he shoves....

now most of your stack is in the middle, the only way to get it out is put the rest in (way behind) and you're right were he wants you.....shipping it!

other than that: I FOLD 80% AND CALL AND PRAY 20% IF EVER IN A SPOT LIKE THIS

the flop bet should have been smaller after that, you should have kept the pot in control and been happy to showdown.

dont play top pair this way, (too spewy)
even against a guy with "stockholm syndrome"

but i'm sure you already know this
__________________
"There's only one thing to do when your opponent holds all the aces....
...flip the table over!"

DeanMartin

"I'm just as ridiculous for you there, as I am for you here!" - Ali Nejad

"My sister would come in my face!" Jacki Bray
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on FacebookReddit!
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2009, 10:47 PM
TylerPatterson's Avatar
Beginning Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 7
Default

That was a pretty awesome post Hustle. I am just surprised so many of you say call. The descritption of this villain suggests that he's not going to check call, check call, "spaz" shove. But people probably do that kind of stuff more against Menlo, so he has to weight that higher in their range. Spaz shove is really the only thing the Hero can beat here.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on FacebookReddit!
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 03-14-2009, 03:35 AM
100% HUSTLE's Avatar
PokerRoad Degenerate
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,991
Send a message via AIM to 100% HUSTLE
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerPatterson View Post
That was a pretty awesome post Hustle. I am just surprised so many of you say call. Spaz shove is really the only thing the Hero can beat here.
ty TP.

I'D LIKE TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENED?
......I'M SO SURE HE FOLDED HERE
__________________
"There's only one thing to do when your opponent holds all the aces....
...flip the table over!"

DeanMartin

"I'm just as ridiculous for you there, as I am for you here!" - Ali Nejad

"My sister would come in my face!" Jacki Bray
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on FacebookReddit!
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 03-17-2009, 11:05 PM
Beginning Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1
Default

i had 88 this hand
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on FacebookReddit!
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:36 PM.