REPOST: Hand from $2500 HA

[Eric Lynch]

I was really unsure of what to do on this hand. This hand came up during the PLHE part of the tournament, relevant info:

Image: Nitty, maybe even weak/tight. Villain is 40-50 yr old solid player, not sure if he knows who I am or not that would impact my image at all.

History: We've only played one significant pot together, during PLO. He limped UTG I potted from the CO with QQT7ds diamonds and spades. Flop was T42 all diamonds. Action went check/check, he bet pot on turn (Kh) and I called, he bet pot on river (Ah) and I tank/folded as he had been playing relatively tight up until that point. After folding he flashed the Kd. I tanked long enough it was somewhat obvious I had a tough decision, but not sure if thinks I'm a hold em donkey who couldn't decide to fold AAxx there or folded something like I had.

Villain Image: Mid 40s/50s guy. Had been playing fairly tight, but not super nitty and not weak tight. Had played most of the pots he had been in strongly making pot sized bets or check/folding for the most part. He had played one hand in the PLO section where he flopped middle set against a player who obviously had AAxx and check/called his flop push, but that seemed pretty standard and I hadn't seen him show anything else but that Kd. Had never check/raised up until this point. He also seemed to show a basic understanding of pot/implied odds playing a more hands with more players in the pot, particularly from the button and blinds, but I hadn't seen him show anything down yet.

Hand. 50/100 PLHE I was dealt AA in middle position. Folds to me and I raise to 300. Terrible calling station two to my left calls, Gavin Smith calls on the button, decent player in small blind calls, and villain mentioned above calls in the big blind.

We start this hand with ~11k, villain has us covered.

Flop (1500): J32

Checks to me. I make it 750 (which in hindsight I think is a little small here). bad player folds, Gavin folds, SB folds, BB rather quickly makes it 1500. I call

Turn (4500): 3

Villain bets pot. We have ~9k left.

What do we do? If it influences the decision at all, the table seems pretty soft during PLO and probably about average during hold em. I had one of the best seats at the table though with most of the better players (Gavin being the obvious exception) directly on my right. Comments on all streets welcome and appreciated.

[DRUK88]

Raise preflop is obv standard.

I think the raise size on the flop is too small but you've already addressed this.

With the 3 coming on the turn and he bets the pot, what is he representing? You are obviously worried about him flopping a set, but when this turn card gives him a full house or quads would he really go so aggressive (knowing about your stack sizes and a pot sized bet would put you in a tough spot with anything - and your flop bet didn't tell him you have an overpair at all)?

I think it ultimately depends on whether you're willing to go broke with AA here generally? If you think you have more equity in folding due to you being at a good table and you feel your not ahead in this spot often then fold, but I think I would call. I would probably call because I am not letting AA go here and won't have an edge over the table/field that you may have.

P.S. I'm a big fan, your book is awesome good luck in the rest of the WSOP.

[TheFool]

Ugh I'm going to rip out the Rizen section of his tourney book now. It's a short-stacked donkament, he could be playing QQ or KK this way, as well as check-raising a big draw which missed on the turn. If he has JJ/22/33 then so be it but there are many hands you beat here.

[CalPolyKid]

The aces are an easy shove to me. As Annette said, unless there is strong reason to believe he would c/r the flop with worse hands AND always shut down on the turn with worse hands, we shouldn't be calling the flop if we are going to fold the turn.

Can anyone comment on the PLO hand he mentioned where he folds the Q high flush?

[Eric Lynch]

Originally Posted by TheFool

Ugh I'm going to rip out the Rizen section of his tourney book now. It's a short-stacked donkament, he could be playing QQ or KK this way, as well as check-raising a big draw which missed on the turn. If he has JJ/22/33 then so be it but there are many hands you beat here.

FWIW we're over 100 BBs effective to start this hand, so I'd hardly call it a short-stacked donkament. I also was really heavily factoring in that I felt my edge during the PLO portions of the mixed event at that particular table were HUGE.

If there were an online tournament I agree with Annette 100% that I should either be shipping or folding the flop a lot of the time. This particular player I felt like I had a pretty good physical read on (no tells, just general body language and mannerisms) that would allow me to make a better decision on the turn. I felt the way he put the chips into the pot and reacted to the turn was pretty strong.

As I replied to the main thread I was running bad in WSOP events to this point so I think I was probably seeing some monsters that weren't there and do agree in hindsight that I should have gotten my chips in here, but I really don't think it's quite as straightforward as it seems once you factor in what I felt my edge was in the PLO portion of the tournament was.

As far as the Q high flush fold goes, I think that one was somewhat standard knowing little other information about the opponent at that time. I also think the fact that he flashed me the K and only the K means I made the right decision. If he showed me the A it would be much more likely he was bluffing, but the fact that he showed just the K makes it a lot more likely he had a hand IMO.

-Rizen

[Eric Lynch]

Originally Posted by DRUK88

With the 3 coming on the turn and he bets the pot, what is he representing? You are obviously worried about him flopping a set, but when this turn card gives him a full house or quads would he really go so aggressive (knowing about your stack sizes and a pot sized bet would put you in a tough spot with anything - and your flop bet didn't tell him you have an overpair at all)?

Also just wanted to point out, this is where the read I discussed is kind of important. He was playing ALL his hands (including the ones with big showdown value to this point) strong betting full pot or nearly full pot on every street. I would say given my read that we can't tell any additional information about his hand based on bet sizing alone, as full pot here is pretty standard for him regardless of his hand strength.

Up to this point, he really hadn't shown the ability to play his hands with any deception whatsoever, and the check raise was a first for him. Although FWIW I hadn't seen him show down any draws to this point, made or missed, so I had no idea if he would play a draw fast or not. I had seen him check/call, check/call, then check/fold a few times prior to this on drawy boards, but that doesn't necessarily mean he had a missed draw on those and would not CR a draw here.

I talked to several players whom I respect a lot in person about this hand and they all seemed to think it was fairly interesting, so either there is something I'm failing to convey over the forum or the players I talked about it to whom I respect a lot just don't want to tell me how retarded I was for folding it to my face

-Rizen

[Brian]

Originally Posted by Eric Lynch

Villain bets pot. We have ~9k left.

What do we do? If it influences the decision at all, the table seems pretty soft during PLO and probably about average during hold em. I had one of the best seats at the table though with most of the better players (Gavin being the obvious exception) directly on my right. Comments on all streets welcome and appreciated.

Is it not possible for him to be playing AxJx this aggressive in the BB? or even complete air trying to rep a set knowing that if you don't have a pocket pair your giving up after the reraise?

[Rounder_D]

as far as you are pot commited not true with 90 bb left, I think the fold is actually the right play to me. if he had KK QQ or JJ he would have raised pre instead of letting 5 players see the flop. once the flop hits and he min raises it screams flush draw or baby set. Then with the turn card and a pot side bet I see him more as setting up a river shove by making the pot 13.5k a 9k shove makes for a very hard decision on the end without giving any real information away. Once he makes that bet i put him on 22

Another point maybe that you raised pre showing strength, and cont bet which is pretty standard and he min raises and then pot bets, i would have to imagine he is't the type of player who is going to ride the flush draw for his entire tournament.

[Unicorn_Lord]

Originally Posted by Eric Lynch

I was really unsure of what to do on this hand. This hand came up during the PLHE part of the tournament, relevant info:

Image: Nitty, maybe even weak/tight. Villain is 40-50 yr old solid player, not sure if he knows who I am or not that would impact my image at all.

History: We've only played one significant pot together, during PLO. He limped UTG I potted from the CO with QQT7ds diamonds and spades. Flop was T42 all diamonds. Action went check/check, he bet pot on turn (Kh) and I called, he bet pot on river (Ah) and I tank/folded as he had been playing relatively tight up until that point. After folding he flashed the Kd. I tanked long enough it was somewhat obvious I had a tough decision, but not sure if thinks I'm a hold em donkey who couldn't decide to fold AAxx there or folded something like I had.

Villain Image: Mid 40s/50s guy. Had been playing fairly tight, but not super nitty and not weak tight. Had played most of the pots he had been in strongly making pot sized bets or check/folding for the most part. He had played one hand in the PLO section where he flopped middle set against a player who obviously had AAxx and check/called his flop push, but that seemed pretty standard and I hadn't seen him show anything else but that Kd. Had never check/raised up until this point. He also seemed to show a basic understanding of pot/implied odds playing a more hands with more players in the pot, particularly from the button and blinds, but I hadn't seen him show anything down yet.

Hand. 50/100 PLHE I was dealt AA in middle position. Folds to me and I raise to 300. Terrible calling station two to my left calls, Gavin Smith calls on the button, decent player in small blind calls, and villain mentioned above calls in the big blind.

We start this hand with ~11k, villain has us covered.

Flop (1500): J32

Checks to me. I make it 750 (which in hindsight I think is a little small here). bad player folds, Gavin folds, SB folds, BB rather quickly makes it 1500. I call

Turn (4500): 3

Villain bets pot. We have ~9k left.

What do we do? If it influences the decision at all, the table seems pretty soft during PLO and probably about average during hold em. I had one of the best seats at the table though with most of the better players (Gavin being the obvious exception) directly on my right. Comments on all streets welcome and appreciated.

It's possible for him to have suited connectors but I don't think he's on that. I don't think he's going to come in post flop with a raise if he had it.

probably had set of Jacks or two pair on that flop. either way I don't see my aces being ahead of much. is he do you know if he's able to ship on just jacks?

[Biff Goods]

To put myself in his shoes for a minute in this hand I think it's just a J and I'll tell you why.

You are in the bb with let's say KJ off.

Early guy who has been (admittedly) playing weak tight and a guy I may (or may not) have bluffed out of a decent size PLO hand earlier AND has a shorter stack than I do raises to 3x and gets 2 callers before me. I call and the flop comes J 3 2 with two spades.

Early guy c-bets small (which seems a bit weak). All others fold and I decide to make a small raise here with my top pair to see if he just completely whiffed and was just trying to pick up the pot. He just calls. The flat call seems pretty weak here too because he if he had a big hand he would probably 3 bet the flop. Maybe he has a flush draw?

The turn comes another 3.

Well that is a good card for my KJ since it didn't complete a flush. What should I do? Well I know...I just bet like half his stack and see if he wants to gamble for his tournament on a flush draw or 2 overs.

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Is this not a reasonable scenario?

I think Rizen nailed it when he said he had been seeing monsters. Sometimes the answer isn't complex.

Also Rizen makes much more money than me in poker so lay off haters.