Aces against Dwan and Eastgate on HSP Season 5

[Barry Greenstein]

The hand starts at 2:50 in the video below, although I assume everyone has seen it by now. I think I started the hand with about 230k, Tom had around 500k, and Peter had him covered.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIs8AAyzgnY

I didn't plan to respond on forums because so many of the posts on 2+2 were very misguided, but then someone reminded me that this is the reason we have a restricted forum.

A sample of the ideas that I didn't want to have to wade through on 2+2:

1. That even with only overcards, I am always going to make a continuation bet into seven players.
2. That Peter or I thought Tom could have 10-10.
3. That Tom planned the whole scenario on the flop when he raised me.
4. That I should always limp reraise with Aces when I'm deep.
5. In deep stack poker, Peter's preflop call is mandatory because you have to call with any two cards once a few players enter the pot.

Here is my discussion of the hand.

http://pokerroad.com/radio/tips-from...n-and-eastgate

I certainly compliment Tom on his read of the situation on the turn, but he wasn't going to win this pot if Peter didn't have a deuce and and play it passively. Well, I guess that's not 100% clear. I was definitely not getting away from my hand head up against Tom, but it is possible that if Peter raises immediately Tom may try to reraise him on the flop or turn and get him off the hand.


Any comments are welcome here. I know I will take a lot of criticism for my call on the flop and my fold on the turn for years to come. People may also weigh in on who had the easier route to winning the hand, Peter or me.

Barry

[Justin Bonomo]

Given that you are the least likely player in the hand to have a deuce, I don't think I like the c-bet. Thoughts?

[Jimmy Fricke]

Yeah, not cbetting is fine considering you're never going to get 3 streets of value here and it turns your hand faceup. Usually that means never going to get action when you're ahead but in this case it meant getting durr to bluff at you.

The call on the flop after Eastgate calls is just bad. Eastgate has to have at least a deuce here to call 40k cold when he knows you have a big hand too. If there were a flush draw on the flop it would be better but I'd still fold because you now have to get to showdown profitably which I don't think you can really do.

[Justin Bonomo]

Ok, I didn't comment on later streets before because I didn't get to listen to your "tips from the bear" til just now...

If Peter folded, you were going to reraise Durrr on the flop... If you were to continue with the hand on the turn, you were going to raise Durrrr all-in. You even said it's too likely for him to have a ten for you to fold.

Given the range you put Durrrr on for the turn... why would you even consider raising?

Assuming you're not folding, if he has you beat, you lose all your money no matter how you play it. So we can ignore those considerations.

Why not play in a way that lets you make money when he bluffs the river?

His river bluff frequency is high enough that you will still profit even though you let him see his 2 outer for free, and it's not even close really.

This was my biggest gripe by far with your blog. It doesn't make sense.

[Paul Smith]

I would check flop and evaluate. As played, I would call turn and c/call any river. I obviously would have folded if Peter called or raised the turn.

[Barry Greenstein]

Originally Posted by Justin Bonomo

Given the range you put Durrrr on for the turn... why would you even consider raising?

Assuming you're not folding, if he has you beat, you lose all your money no matter how you play it. So we can ignore those considerations.

Why not play in a way that lets you make money when he bluffs the river?

His river bluff frequency is high enough that you will still profit even though you let him see his 2 outer for free, and it's not even close really.

This was my biggest gripe by far with your blog. It doesn't make sense.

Justin,

It's always a judgment call whether you want to call and give free outs or raise to prevent them. If I think I have shown enough strength that my opponent will shut down, then it's better for me to raise. If scare cards will come up that will give me problems, it is usually better to raise.

In this case I thought that my hand was so obviously an overpair once I bet into the field and proceeded further that I might as well raise and avoid giving a free card that may hit his pair or a ten that will make it hard for me to call.

Your other complaint that betting on the flop will make it easier for Tom to bluff at me was a good thing for me until Peter got in the way.

Barry

[Jimmy Fricke]

They're not scare cards if you've already determined your opponent is aggressive enough to be bluffing you on multiple streets. Scare cards should make you more likely to call against these players than if bricks come off.

[Justin Bonomo]

It's always a judgment call whether you want to call and give free outs or raise to prevent them. If I think I have shown enough strength that my opponent will shut down, then it's better for me to raise. If scare cards will come up that will give me problems, it is usually better to raise.

Durrr has to bluff such a small percent of the time for calling to be better.

And as we all know, Durrr bluffs in big percents.

Don't worry about what river card comes. Call on any, even a ten IMO.

[Justin Bonomo]

Oh, I didn't realize we only had 230k to start the hand. I take back what I said. Durrr isn't bluffing the river since he can't bet big. Shoving turn is fine.

[Barry Greenstein]

On 2+2 someone raised the point that Peter's quick call on the flop showed that he wasn't committed to the hand. Also, I have been getting label as a tight player who could only have a big pair in early position. (I have been wondering why I am able to get away with so much in tournaments.)

Here is my response:

This timing is a reasonable point, but I hadn't played with Peter before this and he seemed strong when he called and then weak when he folded.

The funny thing is I'm one of the looser players at the table -- Durrrr, Daniel, and Eli are looser, and Ziig is when he's drunk. I guess that actually puts me in the middle at this particular table. I always open Ax suited in deepstack cash games, so I could have it. I might be afraid of 10-10 from Peter, but not from Durrrr.

I finally went from 40 years of being a LAG to being considered a tight player because of playing a short stack on one of the seasons of highstakes poker. I remember in one season, Mori (the producer) said, "We edited out about ten of your bluffs because it would have been repetitive and they all looked the same." In WPT final tables, I think my stats are the loosest. The first one that I won, I think I raised every hand that hadn't been opened if it got to me after the first few minutes once I realized how tight everyone was playing. (You can only tell by seeing how much I gain after each commercial.)

I simply missed the point that Tom used the Ten in his hand to take Peter off T-T. The other problem is I hadn't played NL with Durrrr in the last year, and I didn't know how capable he was of making these plays. That's why I called Phil and Tuan afterward, and they both said they would fold.

I also didn't go to other things that might have helped me, like even looking at Tom. (There are other things I should have factored in that I don't want to give up.) I spent too much time saying to myself, "I guess Peter somehow didn't have a Deuce," and I didn't think that Tom could have known it when he bet on the turn. I didn't think Peter could fold it so effortlessly.

Barry